#494 - I’m Not Calling Han Solo A Liar...

Join Burnie Burns and special guests C. Robert Cargill and Brian Brushwood as they discuss the evolution of the internet, film criticism, magic, and more on this week's RT Podcast!

Link: https://roosterteeth.com/episode/rooster-teeth-podcast-2018-494

Recorded: 2018-05-29 19:00:00

Runtime: 01:38:16 (5896.87 seconds)

Participants:

Keywords:

[
    "burnie burns"
    "ashley jenkins"
    "c robert cargill"
    "brian brushwood"
    "internet"
    "internet evolution"
    "film critics"
    "magic"
    "magician"
    "doctor strange"
    "austin"
    "screen names"
    "reviews"
    "clear pepsi"
    "clear tab"
    "priming"
    "malleable minds"
    "crowdfunding"
    "scotch"
    "whiskey"
    "blacksmith"
    "department"
]

Linkdump:

[
]

Audio:

Transcript (in progress):

hey everybody welcome to this very special totally not pre-recorded episode of the podcast brought to you today by Blue Apron and hymns up there you can see their wonderful logos with me today I have mr. broke that what you said about thank you that's all I wanted are the guess here we know each other very well actually I might have been the one on Twitter Scott Derrickson said something and I responded to him and was like I don't know who you are but you seem to be followed by a lot of people I guess I'll follow you and I was like well if it helps I think I'm responsible for getting Cargill to quit his day job which eventually led to him. before I was a professional film critic I was a video store clerk in fact back in the day there's a number of things articles I've written that you know what we're going to talk about this a little later but there's a lot of articles that I wrote about you know I was on the set of this film and I was at the junket and I was at this bar and and chatting with so-and-so actor and everybody thought that's literally what I was doing for a living and I would go back home and I would fly back to Austin and work at a video store and so Freaky Eaters I would tell the stories at the video store like what you do this weekend oh well you know I was in LA and I visited the set of this movie Rules of Attraction I was shooting and everybody just thinks you're a liar a couple years in I walked up on one of the employees training a newbie and saying okay so look there's this guy here his name is Cargill and he's going to at some point you can work with him you could tell you crazy story about some celebrity that he knows and about being out of some adventure and just believe him cuz it turns out he hasn't actually lied to us yet it was it was a very strange typos I spent 5 years has a Critic while also working in video stores author author the movie and also probably your best known work is you wrote the doctor strange movie from Austin to gentleman that I got from Austin have known you for a really long time Brian in Kerrville we have a really unique situation where Ashley had this with my girlfriend Ashley I'm at this to make it sound weird but let's let's let's get weird and I have overlapping Venn diagram of friends that's enormous but we have never met each other before not quite back in your film review days you were actually the very first person to ever review my one of my movies first movie I made in college with Matt was move called the schedule I'm curious if you even remember I Do I Do It For the cool news you were the independent at that point time the independent film review why was I did what we called in the Indy which was that was the first gay guy got on was for the first year what I did was literally Harry was hairy-nosed was literally one of the most powerful people in Hollywood at that time and he could make or break things right away he saved two movies from go direct-to-video just by reviewing them and the studio change their mind and said maybe we'll put this pitch black movie and this Iron Giant movie out in theaters anyway Harry Knowles I I consider him to be the first successful blogger way back to the old days the internet back on in a rainbow divider you know and I think it was like 1994 or 46 a lot of attention and do that got a lot of influence and so what would happen is a bunch of filmmakers who had made films but couldn't get them picked up couldn't get them into festivals what have you go would just send them to Harry and Harry would get you no boxes of the stuff everyday and so I was essentially the Clearing House for that you would just call me up and be cordial come over I got another box for you and I would just pick through all these BH Jesse's them DVDs of these homemade film sometimes sometimes homemade shot in backyard sometime films with real budget that just couldn't get noticed and his rule was I only talk about the stuff you like like this is not about destroying any one's career this is about finding these Oddball things and Diamonds in the Rough diamonds in the Ruff that that everyone else is neglecting and as a result I got a bunch of people to film festivals II kick-started a couple of careers there's two particular filmmakers who were both about to give up when I wrote about their film and yeah well one of them I'm working with now is the producer named Daniel know what he worked as a screenwriter for a while and now he's a producer with Elijah Wood over affect your vision and he's producing a tone my butt so he actually had one of those things where he had made this film called 12 nobody cared about it couldn't get anybody to pay attention he had pretty much given up and all of a sudden his phone starts ringing one morning and it's ringing off the hook and fine just crawled out of bed and answer the phone he's like hello and it's someone from a CA ad says hey I'm looking for Daniel Noah and he's like this is just me and he said well we would like to schedule a meeting to see 12 and talk to you about representation and and he's like wait how did you hear about 12 and goes when we read about it I mean it cool news didn't you know and he's like it's on it cool news oh so where the first people to get to you so from that point on you know he don't like nobody ended up picking up the movie but people saw the movie Saw His Talent said we're going to let you know we're going to represent this guy started getting them gigs you started doing script work and rewrite work and then he found out that he really love producing and so he and I became friends with Elijah Wood and they started a production company together and they've been through some films in and helping distribute films and around the same time you know the 1960s there was a scene around whatever and you're like it said that that's that's movie talk that's not how it happened but but I'll be damned if that's not exactly what happened in Austin because while this was going on I was performing the Asylum Street spankers would you win all acoustic blues and jazz show and then they would they would take a 15-minute break and I would get up and escape from the straitjacket eat fire do a stick nails my eyes and then I would pass the hat and it was during that time I was walking around and it passing the hat and I looked at her like shit that Siri knows and then and then it was there that they are also doing slam poetry that I met and connected with Ernie Cline became friends with him or any kind of horse wrote Ready Player one and between then and there I guess around the early Scam School days I mean obviously I've been aware of all the rooster to stuff but I feel like you and I only started hanging out like what 5 years ago but it's one of those things sometimes you can operate you in this small town my God I just read that Austin seventh largest roundabout on 51st Street and nobody knows how to use the roundabout they're all waiting for like 4 car links to appear so they can get the car there's a lot of road.com is nice things America can't have what you were just talking about the journey Klein doing slam poetry Like We alright I perform this terrible piece and it was it was so deep nerd like 1997 and there's only one person in this big audience laughing at it and that guy comes up after the passing of the bad guys they just didn't get a man but but you did a good job and he goes on stage and blows me off the stage like he was Ernie was the fucking man back into the late 90s early aughts when it Ultraman is Airwolf like I remember the other one piece about how the Millennium Falcon it is just the Dukes of Hazzard way before they get there just weren't the there was no YouTube to to to let these rants out there were memes did not get passed around like at that point the biggest meme on the internet was that video of the whale exploding like that was the one thing we all have the 1970s email to each other but yeah it's South Park Christmas card definitely most people found out about South Park we have this little postage size does postage stamps and of course the whole entire platform for forwarding stuff around but yes but the Austin was really it really is that whole Venn diagram think cuz we all kind of were all at the same parties we all knew each other when we met we met on an airplane when they're playing it was a funny book and I was going to mention this so I went out to LA for the premiere of doctor strange and the first night I'm out there I'm on a friend of mine had me over to have me on his podcast my buddy just scrimshaw and has like we're going to go to dinner and we go to walk and I'm like I thought they didn't walk and I like literally around the corner and my girl right and then we literally we walked like 20 feet turn the corner and we're at this really great restaurant cuz he just literally practically lives on top of it and then I have to go to the bar and I'm standing next to Max Landis and we have a lot of friends in common so I can literally go hey Max we don't know each other but we have a lot of friends in common and and he goes well I'm actually going really good so Roberts Cargill and I said well actually but but yeah I hear ya you've been sharing love online like hey and so we ended up chatting and so that's how I got to meet Max Landis that's that's the first day the last day I get on a plane I sit down and I feel is tapping my shoulder and I turn around and you're sitting there any good excuse me we don't know each other but we have a lot of friends in common you're Robert C Cargill aren't you you are we friends we just never been in the same room together and so but yeah that was the book end of my my big L a trip was two different people who I share a lot of the same friends when calling me Robert Lee Curtis in the modern era of knowing you I've always called you just Cargill yeah that's what we all go back to the old school with some roommates gave me I was living in a two-bedroom apartment with 7 other guys Charlie Austin like this is 525 Lamar across from threadgill's dollars a month but yeah I know it was a dumbass names and and the worm part just came from we played a lot of world of Darkness role playing games and I would always play I think all the phone more which are essential used warm tainted creatures and it was just my favorite part of that University that's just one drunken night turning into some stupid name and then literally my buddy one of the guys who live there made me my first email address and and NASA where I'm at at netzero.com netzero.com free internet forever remember that forever for 3 years so at the bottom of your screen while you were on the internet the entire then they had that what is a 5 x the speed over dial up because it would just precache every website at thought you were about to start clicking over to the beauty the beauty of NetZero actually was if you actually unplugged the your telephone for a second and then plug it back in that little thing would have a that little bar would have a freak out and would not reconnect after he wouldn't get any more ads and it would save your PIN with whatever you need help with that account and I had made a name so he's like oh well you're messing where now Matthew Arnett and you know a year in I realized wow I really should have picked up my own name cuz this is stuck only Harry gets username that is correct stop my first one I was when we started RoosterTeeth I posted under the name Buzby that actually came from that was fairly recent addition night but I use that for the site of Jeff and Gus and I worked together call drunk Gamers I wrote on his name Buzby on that it was my handle let's everyone had a handle but I did go on bbs's a lot of bvs over here in Austin like before the internet took off those days that was the handle used Trevor was the handled Belasco and have those are my ultimate days when I would play Ultima in Middle School white Altima for an Ultima 5 I ran a tag VBS a 2400 baud back in high school and that's back when he was the monitor trashcan man from the stands then I graduated cuz I started reading Pierce Anthony novels don't judge me and we already tell me where music how does it how it goes not a movie yet but but then I went by Kronos and then at some point I realized that the last six letters of Brian Brushwood was a single syllable would I was like I'll just do that since I bought it and I never thought she would. Com would be a joke now there's an eyeglass company named Floyd Amanda and I get their email from time to time and so I pass it on like hey this appears to be for you and then and then and I just some low rated customer service person was just like hey why do you ask, you should just give it to us right I was like don't know how about no my name to come for my last name Bird's nickname I know but there's a city in Tasmania spell defects in Lake Boerne Tasmania my burnie.com I don't have any email and there was a time when they were trying to get it from me but I didn't realize at the time when I registered it said how important is going to be to have something like that you know to where you had this unique identity and it's like I've tried like I don't know you guys but I tried unwind all those handles and move over to my actual name tell like you we were going through at 8 news you know there's a lot of Brilliance Anita cool and I don't think Carrie gets enough credit for it considering you know what he did right with it which was we were we were at it at a point where print media was still very very dominant 8 years before the first news story that would ever broke on the internet if you are the first one to ever really break on the internet with the Clinton scandal and that was in 1998 and that was by the drug truck and so the internet was still this new place where nothing nothing Anything could happen and nobody cared and so a lot of us were trying to fight for relevance and we were you know we were being told that you guys didn't matter you're just web writers you know you just wright online nobody's reading you print is what matters and what would end up happening is by the time I would come around adding a cool you know we would write reviews that would get 3 to 5 million read a day and I was getting I was a video store clerk of 25 year old video store clerk being read more than Rodger Ebert was imprint because not as many people were reading print and print was in Decline but they refused to accept it so what do you say if you do I would guess I'm going to guess I love video I bet I would have said I'm almost certain I love video for a while and I worked at Hollywood for the most for the longest. Of time these are great like independent video stores not obviously Hollywood or Blockbuster but I love video of Logan and one of things I loved about it was the people who work at the store would leave notes on the cases of all the VHS are you at were make jokes and yeah it was great and I love that anyway what end up happening was Harry realized that there was something very real in creating reviews that were down to earth that use swears that used comedy and that were these characters reviewing it that we would attract this younger audience that we would definitely were offering is we offering something different than you could get in print why would you read a web movie review over an Internet movie review well because the Internet movie review is going to drop some f-bombs it's going to make you laugh and it's going to be told you buy a cartoon character and there was a lot of appeal in that in fact that was one of the big things people talk about the gratuitous errors on in a cool on the big inside secret was they were intentional like we were deliberately not cleaning up our our pieces because it felt more real and raw and down-to-earth and felt like you Stripped Away the pretense with that comes a sense of authenticity that that resonated with me yeah yeah people were like this is a review by somebody I would hang out with not some stuff you film critic who fold his arms in and says no Independence Day was a terrible movie it's like you Independence Day parking lot and we were ever there was one approach that Harry had in particular where he would write about his day add the contacts he was giving was this is where I was in the head to head space that I was in when I saw this movie which is important nobody sounds so self-indulgent you would think would only ruin the review but in fact actually it only makes it all the more related people wanted to see personalities like I think you understood that very early even have the word blog yet until about 2003 and that's 8 years into 7 years into intercooled existence like this was we were experimenting we were throwing shit the wall to see what would stick and some of it did not work some of it was bad some of it questionable but the but we were trying it out and see what the rules were and so and it was crazy how well it worked like we were it was like working at Rolling Stone in the sixties like everyone wanted to be on the front page of medical news I went out to LA again 25 year old video store clerk and I'm on the set of a movie and one of the actors invites me out the bar that night to have drinks and I'm sitting in this bar filled with celebrities who I keep bumping into or keep getting introduced to me and they know exactly who the fuck I am like they're like all your master worm dude I love your shit that's great it's like if it was the weirdest most the real thing for this I was literally just two days before the guy getting yelled at because I wouldn't take a late fee or at somebody account and here I am and I like at one point that night I've got this guy who's literally rubbing elbows with me like it's just like it you know weird weird that packed in and I keep bumping and I turn to look at the fuck is bumping my arm is Vin Diesel and I knew that he was a reader of the site cuz we had to come out to a couple of errands then he you know of both of her movies that Harry save from going to the video that's why I said I don't hate him but he goes out dude and like he's like you want a beer and so I like it was everybody wanted tip everybody wanted to be cool then I'm cool like if you've ever seen the movie Almost Famous that's exactly what it was like we were all these stupid fucking kids thrown into the deep end of the pool we had no idea what to do if the money to buy it cool news is I mean from an industry perspective of starting like blogging and reviews and kind of democratizing all of that there's another aspect to it there to buy his predecessor on the internet which is the community as well the community was so hardcore with the talk backers when they open but they were busy we get some really brilliant people in there but brilliant people also can be brutally skater of all time happy worst to handle of all time remember Danny Glover's dick blood that's a worse. The way the world works it was crazy and it was two communities that I would going to on a regular basis back then it was that one and I'm curious if you guys also went on this which was the view Askew www board that you had the movie poop shoot for the theater at the offshoot of that church at these days and so many people that I know we're on those boards like back in like 1995-1996 so you know the story about Cargill and Kevin Smith right before I wake up mode guide and I'd only recently subscribed to Kevin Smith on Twitter and a and and I I come in Midstream where he's mentioning a mass of warm and it's just like it like I come in at the last one is like so fuck you master worm a piece of shit you'll never create anything in your life. Just sit there judging people like me eat shit he wrote the Epitaph in the way to put on my on my gravestone which is you might not be the asshole you seem in print massawyrm someone out there may even love or tolerate you and that is going on the grace that and I've seen a literally tearing up Kevin Smith High out of his mind giving a video testimony real life Doctor Strange was the greatest should ever was a genius he got high and saw it in 4D like that's how he watches yes that is the wind your lips let me give you a quick little rundown of how Bryan Fitz and all that so I'm working at the video store clerk I'm doing that for 5 years I'm not getting paid to write online like I'm not getting paid for any of those reviews literally just doing it for the cachet in for the fun of writing and we were having a beer at the bar and he's like man why aren't you doing this professionally and I said well you know it's it's you know it's hard to make a living doing this is like look I'm going to tell you how I get it and he told me a story about how he and his wife Bonnie Bonnie had said okay I'm going to give you a year to make this magic thing volunteer that right off the bat. I had a pretty good job working at Dell designing high-end systems and networks whenever sales reps will get in over their head you know I would I would help out but I live for Wednesday nights when I would do magic at the electrical outlets right and it was only passing the hat make a beer money but you have that that that tempting false illusion of well maybe someday maybe someday I'll give this a trifold time or whatever and then right around the time I was thinking that I got a raise and it was a big raise and I realized oh fuck this is how it happens is the money gets too good and you spend the rest of your life wondering what might have been the raise was obviously I'm not at the Wednesday night shift correct correct correct but but but but I realized I was like I can I can barely walk away from this much money if it's any more than this I will never walk away from it so as a result of the Rays I went to Bonnie I was like I don't mind being wrong I don't mind finding out that it's not in me what I can't handle is the idea of 20 years from now me still wondering if I could have made it and I was like I just want one year we don't have any student loan debt just if you'll keep the lights on for one year let me get this out of my system worst case is a year from now we have 30 grand of debt were like every other kid getting out of college right and she was like okay you got one year one year later I still made crap money but by that point I'd read like 20 bucks on on sales and entrepreneurial ship and business planning and all that stuff and I and I went to her and I was like still not great but I think we could do this quit your job and join me and the two greatest days of my life for the day I hired my wife and the day I fired by what you know to be working as as a as a as a marital team but that one year that she gave me to figure out whether or not I can make money as a touring Edition was a lifesaver and so that that was the pitch at the hard so I was putting on car and he gave me that pitch and I went home and talk to my wife about it and she was like you know let's think about that and she thought about it for a couple weeks and said you know what you're miserable as a video store clerk your grade is a writer I believe in you I'm going to give you a year and all work all day I'll make the money you just try to make money doing a film review and if at the end of one year you're making a decent amount of money will reexamine it and then we'll go on at so she gave me a year and within five months I was making twice what I was making his video store clerk and from that on there was no looking back and so you know I made twice that the first year and and three times at the second year and by the third year was making as much as she was and I was a professional film critic and then and then I saw the bottom dropping out of the internet I saw what was happening and and the way that everything was starting to get gobbled up everyone was copying and pasting other people's articles of news there wasn't you know there wasn't that whole hey go read this article and then come back and read our our commentary on a gentleman's agreement that used to exist in the early days of film criticism and and I was like oh there's nothing to be a job for me in 5 years and so I sat down to write my first book and so ended up doing that but while I'm writing that first book I'm I'm hoping it at all these different places and working for different movie review places to tube to make that living and one of them was film. Com and they come to me and they say hey Cargill you're you're our biggest biggest Kevin Smith fan here why don't you write the fall out about the Fallout of the aftermath of his whole cop-out tobacco where he started screaming film critic I was telling me like this is a time where it's just like you know how many words you want yeah sure I'll write it but not knowing when it's going to get published in what context are with what headline it's like you know Kevin Smith just give us five hundred words on on how social media has affected his career that is exactly what I would do this I called in my Sunday night dump in which every Sunday night I would write 5 articles for phil.com and I would just sit down at about 2 in the morning and ride until dawn and I would turn out these five articles that would be nobody's calling nobody's riding nothing's being updated online if I want to break I take a break in about 3 330 and check out all my friends in the UK who are waking up on Twitter and that's at but yeah I know I right in the middle of the night and it just stuck with me tell me if if I've got the right of this beat the overall gist of what you wrote for the bell.com article was basically we are saying the sun setting of Kevin Smith being known as a director and we're seeing the beginning of him being something more and it seems to involve social media or whatever but I don't think Kevin Smith heard or saw any of that because the first line with something to plug the lines of with this tweet he ended his career as a director I will I will actually know what it was you are Miss remembering what it was what he took issue with with eye the entire article was about how social media which was this brand new thing we still you know Facebook was just becoming popular in the mainstream Twitter and not become popular in the mainstream it was still a thing that you know was used by a bunch of us Fringe folks and said he was humiliating himself in public your social media and tell me what type of story is that why would you tell the story of sin in public why are you sharing this and the the gist of it was was that Kevin Smith's power of what he did was his voice and his sharing these hyper you know these things really tight tone down geek references essays things like that his opinion his voice was why we watch these film and now he was saturating the market with his voice and he was becoming irrelevant and and I said that you know if he keeps this up he is approaching a relevance and it was like a relevant irrelevant I'll show you who's irrelevant internet boy and he flip table and it was he spent half an hour if I got it I'll never forget the entire premise of Jay and Silent Bob Kevin Smith. So furious with me and and then chilled out about it and then he was he was going to show red-state 250 bloggers in his home and somebody said hey you should invite Master worm and he's eats weed at Migos yeah I know absolutely nothing would show that that's water under the bridge like having that's where I'm coming to my place and watch my new movie but I understand you wouldn't do that to the ball's in his court and I was like oh mother fucker and so I pick up the phone when I call her in like Harry you've got to pay to fly me out to do this is Mike Gonzo piece man like I'm like the store it's not just me writing about a director it's me as part of the story of you every every journalist always dreams of having that one like Hunter S Thompson crazy Gonzo experience and I'm like this is it we got to do is he's like yeah sure will do it will fly out at still at the end you know he does the Q&A and I go up to him like a man it's good to see you again you know I'm messing with him and he goes oh oh you're one of those people I got into an argument on the internet with aren't you and I said yeah I haven't guessed I'm sorry man I do that I'm really sorry and I'm like well can we hug it out you think of course we can hug it out so me and Kevin Smith hugged it out and and and then eventually the career happened and he wrote a very high crying review of my movie so all is good I want to hear the path to getting to Doctor Strange from there but I do want to say I think we need a word for whatever that regret hangover after internet rage happen so what is it like right yeah every single time but it's like there been times at 3 in the afternoon and it's like the spirit comes over me on like this person needs to know that they're wrong unless I can see their face in art I just assume everyone's fantastic article by the wonderful writer David Wong at cracked.com called a 6 harsh truths that will make you a better person and it's filled with great advice but my favorite part is at the very end he explains the nature of trolling it when people post nasty comments he says they all boils down to the same thing and then he puts and quotes stop trying what you're doing is different than the way I would have done it and the attention you're getting is making me uncomfortable with myself and then once you want that the filter through which you read every negative comment it's like him and that's okay here's a hug let's talk it out alright let me read this this episode of The Rooster Teeth podcast is brought to you by hymns check this out 66% of Men start losing their hair by age 35 and will be on the age of 35 that don't care if you want to but that's two out of every three dudes on earth that is a ton of people and if that bothers you you have this problem check out for him, One Stop Shop for hair loss skin care and sexual Wellness for men hymns provides medical grade Solutions real doctors who offer quality generic prescriptions to help you keep your hair where it belongs there's no waiting room and no awkward doctor visits save time and your hair by going to four hands., so pretty easy it was for a few quick questions online and doctors will review your information and prescribe a solution for you got to Patrick have tried the service they swear by it if it the whole process was quick and it was very easy to deal with if you were going to trial month of hymns for just $5 today right now while supplies last see website for the the Tails this would cost you hundreds if you went to the doctor or Pharmacy it's so much easier to use him to go to for him.com rooster that's forhims. Com rooster for hens. Com research before we get back in the RCA we had a really fun arcade this is because we had so many, and we decided to finally act on it but here's one of the old Rooster Teeth Animated Adventures I have things on my boat in real life actually it was glorious kind of like movies I don't know my father said it was a it was a genius so I should put in the microwave what walking past him and going oh hey Dad what do you microwave and before I can get microwaving out of my mouth are microwave exploded into a glorious Roman Candle in the score to the feeling of our kitchen and I was like what the fuck was that he was like I microwave my cell phone never had a fork in microwave anything before his mind thought I and you know this one phones have keys still and was it all touch screen and so you know the water got into the keys and he panicked and so it. I'm dry quickly maybe like a blow dryer Christ turning it over on a towel none of that he thought his immediate brain went phone Mike when he was the most amazing thing I've ever CSA don't put your cell phone in the microwave man why did you microwave your babies like so that was actually a reference to another discussion we had where we can talk about how she was wearing some anime shirts at the time so when the animators for RTA made it they just made her wearing the some anime shirt every time that shirt has appeared in rtaa the comments have been dominated by people asking us to make a some anime shirts so for those of you who have asked for it endlessly first of all you can get that to me help you do but secondly can also know shut up and never asked for it ever again there is your does your lovely products and there are there free copies of that the guests right now if you would like a some anime sure that be great that would be happy to put your name on the back but Robert see cars are not at all. Corded Memorial Day podcast we're celebrating so supportive these guys wife were about their careers what do you want to do to be a trapeze artist do you want to eat you want to start up a successful Media company is that sounds like a lot of fun an open door to anyone anyone could show up and as long as you did something halfway interesting there was an audience because there were so many people online and nobody was generating contact distribution have been Consolidated and Men is it a different place now in the world of all right it was like below home video release movie went straight to home video that was a huge insult and Webb was like somewhere below that but like slightly above porn so that's the reason I was literally being read by 3 to 5 million people a day in my parents for like so you're still doing that internet thing huh like it was it was crazy like they didn't take it seriously four years we were the interviews and most of the interviews ended in the exact same way there goes with one last thing do you think like one day people will make money doing what you guys are doing that's like we just walked around 40 people that work here how do I still I still get the question like that end in nachos nachos for $2 the United States are performed in every state in the United States have been on The Tonight Show twice the dark chapter is is because what I was doing this I was real time trading my my attention for for money which is a hamster wheel right so it's like I learn how to eat fire breaks overhead read minds do do it's a good stage show up and tell her I said very nice things when I did Penn and Teller fool us or what is his stage show is amazing speaking of Venn diagram he wants did his show at my birthday. Birthday party birthday party I forgot how long we've known each other during that time I was getting fully booked I was on the road 150 200 days out of the year does performing colleges and universities first first year was maybe 20 shows than 40 than 60 then around 2003 I level out a hit Max bandwidth and then I was having College just say well what else can you do Anna and they're like why can come to the show again they like that we seen it you stick the fire in your mouth is very nice you break the break over your head like that was the time that John Edward was doing is talking to the dead people TV show and everybody loves how does he do that what's this and I would find myself doing like an improvisational 30 to 40 minute lecture explaining the tenants of skepticism and stuff to all these folks but I realize like I will maybe I could give a lecture on college campuses so I wrote electric called scam Sasquatch in the Supernatural and so now I had to chose to do on college campuses and after about 5 years of that I realized will not reaching enough people because if you've if you've ever worked in in the live arts or variety entertainment there are moments where you're performing for 300 people and it's absolute electricity you're connecting with them and think something trans send it and then they give you a standing ovation or whatever and then 2 weeks later not one person to remember your name and they have to remember that you were kind of funny and that and that's part of the reason that I used to do that the guy all crazy spike is because I just wanted something for them to hold on to that they would remember down the road and then around this time you know YouTube 2005 launches up so in 2006 I start at least catalog logging life on the road with a Brian Brushwood on the road and then I had the idea of one of the other things that naturally always happened was as soon as the show is over at the Student Activities board would take me out to eat and they all wanted to learn a trick for themselves not like what can you teach me and so after doing that a few times I was like I think this this should be virtualized and and you know distributed so I had the idea for Scam School that I took to a revision 3 and I at the time I thought this will be a good starter gig I'll get experience I'll learn how to talk on camera so I could go anywhere all internet startups fail and here we are 10 years than 500 plus episodes down the road I miss that so much started as a video off YouTube big or was it just a few other techtv Alum got it put together they were the founders of it and in the early days it was pitched as a tech Network basically a rebirth of you know what was good about texting me because Popeye G4 and there's a lot of people who didn't like that they the gaming direction of G4 they wanted more text Centric stuff and that's that's why I pitched Scam School as the only show dedicated to social engineering at the barn on the street and so in the early days you'll you'll notice like for the first four or five years I never used the n-word I never admitted that what I was doing was teaching magic because text Joe I'm teaching you hacking life hacking skills hacking I don't know those are text her and see exactly and then and then at some point it became clear like there's a lot of young magicians learning stuff and and by that point it has been bought by Discovery digital and now it's part of group 9 Productions but the weird part for me is 10 years into this is is to hear so many people say oh yeah you're the reason I got into magic because I started watching it in elementary school and then now I'm on America's Got Talent none like you don't want to it's it's crazy it's yeah I know it's it's so weird like I will talk to Young film critics and they'll be like oh man when I was in 5th grade I was reading your reviews and then like those were appropriate for a picture of you doing that but yeah I know it's so weird to it like how that you know that space created inspired so many other people and and and just keep speeding and it's very weird like that's how I I now view these people that I'm a huge fan of that I grew up with do that lens of like oh you were just somebody just like huffing and trying to sell books and you just I picked up your book and then I became one of your fans and it inspired me to do this and David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear there was no impression that I had that he was going to tell us how he did it but now I would imagine the most time when people see a trick their first question is how to do it and then just add magic I'm not going to double-check do you have to tell me when people feel like they have to know how things are done I just part of our I feel like I can be there going to do three hour read on Wikipedia after they see a trick here's an honest answer and I don't normally I don't normally say this in public but I think that knee-jerk reaction of I can't tell you it's a secret or whatever I think that is a social construct that magicians say because they haven't put enough thought into coming up with something more clever and what they don't realize is a side effect of that is it makes you a dick and it makes them think you're a dick Seinfeld had the routine every magic routine is the same here's a quarter now it's gone you're a jerk now that's what everybody thinks The Magicians and that's because of this whole a good magician never Reveals His Secrets but whereas how little effort would it take to do something with a little more nuanced do a trick and then somebody says yes the knee-jerk reaction is how do you do that what what they're really saying is I am experiencing amazement at this moment guide me to more of this experience but instead people respond with with defense and they're like I'm not going to tell you so fuck you and the end and that's why magicians have a bad rep whereas how much easier would it be to say oh did you enjoy that and where they guess they know they just ask you how it was done and then like yeah I enjoyed it and then you say would you like to see another and again what are they going to say no like like it's so much more Dodgers that question now if the next day or three or four days later somebody calls me on the phone saying I think my life has really changed as a result I would really like to know you actually have that story number of those story I know but you have that you I don't know if you can share it but let's throw this out there just in case can you tell the story about JJ Abrams wife I hope it was going to be actually Doctor Strange okay so it's just a wrap up this. I feel like magicians would be better served if they've learned to more subtly guide people into the next thing and they didn't meet force with Force by making by saying no I'll never tell you the secret you make the secret the star of the show and the secret should not be the star of the show The Secret should be the sauce that makes the story so so so wonderful right so separate situation it was it was Father's Father's Day Father's Day for 4 years 3 or 4 years ago I was Boris awakens was being shot this is the beginning of this story we've had on our comedy podcast night attack we've had Greg grunberg from Heroes and a number of other project city thank you. Yes exactly and if you don't know he and JJ Abrams have been childhood friends and everything so I get a text from a number I don't recognize saying hey how did David Blaine make it appear in an orange it's like okay I'm going to keep talking to my parents and then the phone rings and Ed and I have benefited from the same number and clearly at a bar Greg grunberg says I have a raging she would he and I have to know how he did the trick but I thought of card and it was in an orange and that you don't know about that so I was like why I haven't seen it but if he describe the effect he was like to have the phone over I was like JJ JJ is the magician he knows his stuff on that right it's so it's so if it looks that clean if in general so that he just thinks hardness in an orange I don't know how they did it but the way I would do it is before the cameras were rolling I would make sure to firmly establish what that card would be so I would have time to sneak it into an orange right and head that way when the cameras rolling who knows what that means but the room is well Harrison swears he just thought of a card and and it showed up in the north and so and so I'm just like I was like well let me take a look at it and it take a look at it and magicians have this thought the to clean principal like they're their signal and then there's no choice if it's pure signal for example if if I were NASCAR Guild to think of a card and then I were to do any says that the queen of diamonds that I were to pull back my shirt and and you would see tattoo to pull my body a queen a diamond that would be to clean you would immediately think there's no way that was natural I have to respect all this stuff but if got it a lot of noise like if I asked you to grab it after cars you Shuffle that you pull out a card you yeah you could change your mind 5 times that adds more noise but when it when you pick the queen of hearts that I revealed letters tattooed on my chest now all the sudden it's like I've no idea how that's possible Right watching the performance it's like this is too much signal not enough noise something different I don't know what but something happened before the camera roll Rite Aid sell it so I showed up I call back and JJ Ronnie Dunn even answer his own phone something happened before those cameras world and Eddie goes It goes meow like not for me to call Han Solo a liar but I'm sure that's how he remembers it because again that's another thing The Magicians ReliOn is is the malleability of memory right and it's okay going to get the phone super disappointed thanks for nothing she would and so I think that I have some friends who worked on the special let me let me find out what I can find out to confirm but I'm telling you something happened before the thing but it's like all them and it leave a message hours later hours later I get a phone call I don't know if anything I'm about to say is True flight of fancy that very likely is fiction so imagine a short story that ends like this I could tell that person. That would be two of you it for legal reasons I get a phone call from my friend who worked on the show as they like weirdest Day Ever JJ Abrams called me Harrison Ford wants to know this is what happens it looks to me like something happened before the cameras were rolling tell me I'm not crazy cuz I'd like to think I know a thing or two about magic and the guy says well number one yes of course something happened before the cameras are rolling with it but Harrison Ford said he just thought of a card and it was just in an hour Eddie says yeah because he was high watch it again I start larger than his face stoned out of his mind the entire trip together where they put all of the cards in all these various places completely forgot that they put the cards at all the places thought of a car and holy shit it's in an orange what up mr. Ford's lawyers I just assume this is fiction I've always assumed it's fiction but that certainly is a satisfying into the tail if it were true coming up as just get everybody the audience Stone exactly that on his is the Comedy Central special he went with Doug Benson and did Magic for High people at a dispensary was pretty great question about magic sure so it is there a part of magic that kind of crosses over with hypnotism would like the power of suggestion is well I mean to do some tricks where you do them but you know there's a there's a chance they might not work out or is every trick I'm going in a hundred percent I know it's going to work this is a a idea of skepticism in scientific and Magic this is a cross-section here there's something called the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy which is a six-shooter you shoot the side of a barn then you walk over and you paint the Target around it it's all based on the fact that that that timing-wise nobody knows what you were aiming for it right so in that regard hypnotism certainly is in the same boat stage hypnotism people after all the time if hypnotism is real and my response is yes it's real so nothing like what you think it is and the way I explain is like if you've ever laughed at a movie or cried in the movie you have been moved to a physiological reaction by a situation that never happened to characters who never existed but you allowed yourself to make them real enough that you felt a real a real thing right as well lately was when Doctor Strange's hands go to the fucking dashboard of a car that made me eat like my butthole pucker show up on screen like you just have to acknowledge that they don't exist Ashley that he had scars all the way up his finger that is something we we we had a very long discussion about in the something I I fought for very hard was I felt that in order for Doctor Strange to work he never fixes his hand like that was a thing like there was a lot of talk that oh no heat the reward he gets the end of the movies he gets and back head back in like no no the reward at the end of the movie is he makes the sacrifice to be a hero and at the same time we don't get to see disability in film and seen it treat you no see it really would be hero very often and see somebody represented who suffers from a disability and and it's still one of the most powerful people in the world despite that fact and so I felt that that was really important and so yes that was a thing was he would any scene where you would see his hand he would spend an hour and make up getting the scars put all over his hand even if they only appear for just act like it was a big thing and it was a weakness behind the scenes project Sonora of authenticity and and in control miss when really all he's thinking is like don't go pick up my car don't take a black car don't take a black card but you never see that internal dialogue on there as far as far as hypnotism there is clinical hypnotism and then their stage hypnotism and you'll notice that a stage hypnotist Act is basically like an ascending ladder of increasing social pressure if I were to say it right now take off your shirt and dance like Lady Gaga you would think that would be very painful and uncomfortable for me to do I mean I'm down like water always goes downhill the same trick I use on anytime I get somebody on the phone and I'm trying to do a customer service thing I understand like never ask a yes no question they can say no they'll say no so instead what you do is you make the easiest solution for them to do the thing you want them to do and that's what that's the social contract the more people who show up to a stage they have no show the better the show is because the social pressure is so great where it where somebody's like halfway through the show was like well I already pretended that I was hot or cold or whatever and it's like you know I really wanted suddenly admit that that that this isn't working right again you can talk your talk yourself into a state of mind where you do feel like it or death or you'll have to remember it'll be like a half remember dream when somebody says you won the lottery and you act out so vividly the reaction of winning the lottery that later when they say like a hoe where's your lottery ticket much like if you dreamed about winning the lottery you'll have a brief flashes like so it wasn't a real thing and that's the kind of thing where you do feel an obligation to like I need to send an 8 performance in each of us you know hernia performer I should say where want you to get those reactions you just kind of start to lean into it even more with the first part of every hypnosis shows of vetting process of like what get rid of these people who clearly aren't going to play along that there's a second phase 2 first is the vetting process where it's like you need to make it clear that you're sifting for people who are going to be malleable and cooperative and you'll also notice a slow shift in language early on they'll say very carefully safe Let's Pretend We're cool how would you act if you were cold how would you act if you were tired and then and then it's like how would you just let your body relax and and when I say sleep I want you to enter the state again so now what you've done is you start to set up a programming Loop where the word sleep equals let everything go loose and then at some point you stop saying all that Preamble and you just a sleep so the visuals you get later on or been to any good because memory is so malleable you're able after the fact you won't remember all the lead up. You'll just remember somebody being halfway through and then staying sleep and then they just collapse down do you guys see the power of suggestion I think it's incredible to me did you do you do with a big viral thing last week about yanie or Laurel a video clip and people hurting why do you keep saying little wooden work on her I've heard like green brain see anything except the difference is you will hear whichever one you want to hear it so you still have want to hear this one you then hear it it works exactly the same way as in the 90s there was this crazy thing that happened with the Teletubbies where where did you would pull the string and it would go batty batty but people heard baguette faggets and so they had to pull it off shelves because the men some Christian mother heard those words and and and said that all of a sudden people are rushing out and buying them because they wanted the packet that gets all and it was and it was a very weird thing where when you actually listen to it it's like that's not what I'm saying at all like it doesn't want the whole conspiracy theory that it was pushing a gay agenda because the upside down triangle and pretend like I don't know who that is but you know the name of all of them Bernie episode of the modern Rogue talking about work if you're pushing the gay agenda why would you just look like at the first internet things we can watch the video online and and listen to it was like oh that's that's not what it's saying at all like this what is what is everybody but everyone was hearing it when you try to listen to it if you think brainstorm I think the words green needle you hear granito just don't worry about an extra syllable in there and yet somehow you hear the syllable the third syllable on there I've heard both Union Laurel like depending so was I heard something else and I'm like I actually for a while was searching around to see if they were if this was a big hoax there were literally two different file audio file that I wasn't healthy so you're all really good examples of what they called priming we didn't episode on backmasking on the modern Rogue where we played just a random random track by a local band named the Dracula's and we played it backwards and it's like this is nonsense sound that means nothing he's like great now I want you to hear these lyrics and he said about you lyrics and sure enough once you had that filter that lens through which you watched everything it was like yeah I know I hear it plain as day that's amazing Rock what is the devil the devil contextual Clues basically to have think about those who is listening to it perform some kind of action you're like planting that seed a great time to bring up this episode of The Rooster Teeth podcast is brought to you by Blue Apron sound great right Blue Apron is offering our audience their first three meals free that's right free when it comes to dinner let Blue Apron take care of planning and shopping just do the cooking and eat the great food enjoy delicious meals like popcorn chicken with sweet chili spice wonton noodles and vegetables peanuts is ready and on the table in 45 minutes or less ingredients and Chef design recipes Blue Apron gives you your taste buds a great new experience and I would love to use Blue Apron but just takes all the Blue Apron every single time it shows up to have some dinner right now yeah what's up Blue Apron offers 12u recipes each week you can pick two three or four recipes based on what best fits your schedule Blue Apron uses only non GMO ingredients and meat no added hormones they deliver fresh pre-portioned ingredients and step by step recipes that can be cooked in under 45 minutes right to your door the menu changes every week based on what's In season and his design by Blue apron's in-house culinary team check out this week's menu and get your first three meals free at blueapron.com RoosterTeeth don't pass up 3 free meals that's blueapron.com is Blue Apron a better way to cook a blue apron meal you and I menu so that would be great that would be a great viral thing for a company do is use their like this green needle brainstorm thing but with their actual trademark name of some kind of been but then you have to find something like super controversial to light it up on Reddit then it also sounds like yeah that Coca-Cola when they were introducing Clear Pepsi Coke decided to put out who your tab at the same time and remember that you really poorly marketing so that it was basically a brand designed to die and dragged down Clear Pepsi with it by the power of Association wild sounds like a lot of fun to know what you know what was at actually I feel did the most damage to clear Pepsi well they did this whole gag on Clear Pepsi where was clear gravy and it was the grossest thing you've ever seen in your life and it literally just anytime I hear a clear Pepsi after that it just turned my stomach exactly right because this came out and that was clear as well but was really just a skating indictment of in general is the idea of anything becoming clear is dumb knock it off and then that was that so resonated with people that was the end of clear Pepsi clear PCS in electronics for a while to Jim's and saying can I get that with clear gravy and then they go their Pepsi okay sorry I had Pepsi brought to you by Pepsi born and raised in Austin no I was I was actually I was born in San Antonio but I'm a military brat so I moved around and then I moved back to San Antonio when I was 14 and then when I was 19 I fell in love with a girl and I followed her up to Austin when she went to college and been here ever since and they don't like to say that they don't like to mention that they made big news for love but for me that's one of the most legitimate reasons to make a big change in your life is for love but you will feel like oh it's a special doesn't work out that it was like you know like I followed that girl up here and I'm still married to her like we you know we just bought a new house together like our life is awesome likes of course I'm willing to say yeah I followed her up you totally buggin worth it bankroll do you for a year man that was pretty though best wife ever dude about your starting off and then you know x amount of months in you were hitting your financial goals in the doubling that that's always a really great thing and that's bills to the hitting your financial goals but you for your career is really important it helps you never look back and it's also that thing that people always say oh well if you're doing something you love then you really don't work a day in your life that's not true at all when your hobby becomes your vocation which is done everything you would normally do and you're spending money on in your private life is now just part of your everyday business life that I think is a huge Fringe benefit for it like everything that I do for my job here I don't have really anything to spend money on it home because I have video games and comic books in computers and stuff like that I have learned in my long life on the internet don't ever pre-order soft product like software always pre-order hard products well that died was I got that for Gavin remember me talking about greatest wife ever Gabby news bullshit I love crowdfunding ambition and that everybody just dump money into it and this was a cup of fluid into it the fluid and tell you what was in it break it break it out my corded yeah exactly totally conceptual video that went along with her husband together a video but for years later they sure there's all kinds of legalized in all of those words like you are giving away money let's be very clear and maybe you'll get something thank you we're not responsible for any of this by the way the crowdfunding platforms but now you can apparently sue the people who have the campaign it's wife suddenly rethinking all kinds of business strategies to make what two things like an Artistic Endeavors mean that is to me the part of crowdfunding is you want to see this thing get made and part of that is kind of like a social contract guess what might not happen even if they meet their financial goal in might not happen you know when it's interesting because the obligation theoretically the obligation is to make the thing that you promised but back in the 1990's Michael Robertson founder of mp3.com projected predicted the rise of the middle-class Rockstar he said digital distribution is going to make it possible for you to make decent money not crazy but but I think what we're saying 20 years later is the rise of the middle-class Patron where where people yes they do yes they want the thing to be made but what they're really doing is their purchasing that awesome feeling of knowing that I am supporting independent artist and I'm making something and that when it comes out I can say I had a hand in doing that that's my name in the credits and all that stuff and it used to be that was the land of people who are buying museums with their millions of dollars or whatever and now you know you could do it $4 a month on patreon or what-have-you yeah it's funny what I like when people use in crowd funding for there's a group called adopt a Chateau in French in France and they're going around and dilapidated castles in chateaus and then crowdfunding them in the dream is now you can own a portion of a Chateau in France your shopping for armor but I have a thing like that where I actually I'm a scotch Drinker a heavy Scotch Drinker of time and occasionally I buy Laphroaig every bottle of 18 year old Laphroaig comes with a free one foot by one foot plot of land like that read one foot by one foot plot of land in Scotland its what was my wife says it's like drinking band liquid Band-Aids ruin these with these islay scotches do I know my eyelids my friend I liked it and I enjoyed it and then I was working my way up to Laphroaig but that is but it's hard cause I told you that I enjoyed scotch and you were like yeah I don't really drink that I didn't realize that you were on the Scotch whiskey train. Are you familiar with the whiskey Vault right here in Austin Texas is a business Academy Ashley I drove out to this wizard tower out in Central Texas from crystals and that's where we went over a thousand weddings venues beautiful venue if you want to go get a free wedding the wizard The Wizard Tower is where the Business Academy is that's where they bring in like a world-class teachers and stuff and they date they have started a whiskey sommelier program behind a library that you pull back some library books and you get inside and there are hundreds of whiskeys and it's a 3-day program to become a whiskey sommelier and dude is not messing around like you have to take a test at the end and be able to identify like this is definitely the Canadian this is definitely the Japanese this definitely the the Irish you learn all the background on how all this stuff is made that they have couple of video series youtube.com slash whiskey Vault and their new one is whiskey biscuits you can fight it but you would love these guys on man I got to get you a basic I'll drink Jim Beam and then also drink Laphroaig you waiting to does he gets up there with a map of Scotland and in the fact that he's put into these different areas and he points out that the Pete is you don't like you are tasting the actual Earth of that region like at yesterday's amazing highly recommended highly recommend me your version of that bottle bye bottle in the world that it's great I've been a lot of fun we go Melbourne was that we were that we took Ellie my assistant out and she was 25 and so we got her a whiskey that was as old as she was a while and try to see you tonight the thing is is that once you get past 21 whiskeys become kind of weird and sometimes certain with people yet what it did like whiskeys that I love like after 21 they start like going in a direction where it's like oh I don't I don't like this I actually like it younger I just said I can put it in my mouth that's younger than 18 that is what I'm saying is true with people in Scotch but younger here lies Roberts. Chris Chris Roberts see what I mean I went to I went to Judson here in Texas which is the second largest at the time was the second largest High School Texas 3200 kids went to the school or the high school said they were 1250 freshman in my freshman year and so what that meant was the group of Misfits an outcast that you have it any school that would be three or four kids drawing there were 30 of us and so you know it was you unionized normally you would be something of a social misfit at your high school being in the certain things but there were so many of us that we instead got properly socialize while being nerds and so but there were four kids in that group named Chris and so people would be you know my close friends the people who would take a bullet for me would be like hey Chris Cargill hey Chris Rogers he like they would just be hate your full name so often you just give them no just call me call you I like I come from a military family here in the last name is fine just call me Cargill and it stuck and I got introduced to my wife that way I got introduced to all my close friends that way there's literally three people on the planet work my parents who called me Chris because they remember meeting me early freshman year and it just stuck same things to me I got my name Michael in a Mickey Topher and so that was going to happen I didn't find out until just a few years ago I could have been kit and I could have been kicked Cargill bring it back there's so much gray I think it's too late to know Sir John Cargill there actually are a few British people in the in the author Community who jokingly refer to me as king in fact I was just at a wedding of a writer and he put kit Cargill as my at my seat never going to call you in just a lot of different stuff but I want to make the forge he he made an item which rings and then you give them every once you can control them about it you might have heard of them I want you to know that I just spent the last 30 seconds trying to imagine a cooler Department than a blacksmith's it to brag about having and I did I didn't I couldn't be there but it's in a section of stage 2 so like I'm always 22 and we need to or drink and that's where the blacksmithing forges wrangling going roll around with puppies before you go on the air what are the coolest things with fringe benefit it is and I totally take advantage of this was there also in that department super obsessing about sharpening things sharpening knives so I brought in some of my knives to have my Sharp and now they're like it's like having razor blades with handles in my house is what it's like it's amazing when you cut yourself and don't feel it yeah Gary and then I was going to just do where's all this coming from are we both did just call me on the speaker on my dominant hand held a drone away from my kids remember that and I said I said hey Bonnie turn off this drone because I don't like the kids getting too close to it not realizing that drones when they get shut off going to Landing mode so as I held it I watched lawn mower blades come in and just look up apart my yeah if you go to if you go to instagram.com Scam School Brian scroll back to Christmas Eve of last year it is an early because I saw that I have that image burned into my head and you know somebody in the back room is bringing that up any second now she's got the worst part was in the middle of all the chopping of I hand it knocked some skin in there so even after everything healed like I guess when when skin gets knocked in where skin doesn't belong skin is getting nutrients and mitts kids like him and I guess I'm supposed to keep growing on skin and meanwhile everything on the inside is just like what what whoa who the fuck are you who let you in there like stealing my boys are worried about having pretty hands being a magician I don't worry about that anymore please please don't cry your eyes when they cleaned it that was rough that was a rough time when I was in the ER of course of sound mind and I'm saying like hi I'm a magician I'm really worried about the the range of motion on my hands in the sensitivity at the end of fingers if you could just let me know and then and the response was like a look that's what I said maker in my eyes are very important my work. The secret eyes are important to everybody working film hands for my well we find you guys do Ashwood on Twitter I'm fairly chatty right there is perfect I tell people all the time like like my email box I still have like 2000 important unread emails and yet I respond to every single tweets so that's probably the best way to get ahold of me but definitely check out the modern Rogue at youtube.com modern Road in Austin Texas that's right and then hopefully we're in the middle I don't know we got a few days to screw up the deal but we're trying to buy a seven and a half acres so we can build a modern Rogue World Headquarters and starts you can have your own that's exactly when I put that I was like what you going to look like 30 feet up all right so we'll see how that you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at master yrn after all these years because of you but you was so important to us and literally like it was important to you and I was a 25 year old video store clerk world is just a weird fucking place dude world back then you're making something you make a movie and then you try to get to independent film festival which essentially was the process of trying to convince about 6 people to let you show your movie to about 200 people and that's how it works and it's like and you just hope the right one maybe one person out of the 200 who watched in the theater that would be the person who changes your life and while we were in the middle of that process we started putting videos online they started going everywhere it's like it's supposed to do this but I also mentioned yet he trusts you were nominated for Clark award what are the Arthur C Clarke's first book nominated for the Arthur C Clarke Award with the words robot dog congratulations also true yes it was a it was a passion project book it was one that I pitched for years to people and then they were like what's it about was it supposed to park electric robot Western 1 and humans are irrelevant and there are far back distant memory and it's it's if people are fighting over the bones of civilization it's it's and you think of them as people even though they're all artificially intelligent machines right before we went live I confessed a car deal that you know a lot of books don't stick and kind of hot me but the world of sea of rust definitely definitely does well-deserved on the board thank you coming out we are where the nightmares go and Other Stories by C Robert Cargill that's the way that's the way it is that's like you can just go straight to the one monitor cuz that's how I can always tell like it a business email or something if I really know someone or not cuz I'll be like oh Robert and I'm like we've never met you on this past that that's that's where the Beyonce joke in in Doctor Strange came from that is exactly what that comes with like like that some of his material is everything is like who are you I'm Cargill Cargill and then that's that's how I knew that moment that showed up in the movie yeah all the time and we were trying to find something for long and long in Marvel Comics is just called one he has no and trying to find something that would really kind of work for him and could be funny because you know you this is the leader Marvel movies their family movies they're they're supposed to be fun as much as there's a lot of heavy stuff that goes on you have to laugh you have to have a good time and so we're like we need something here and I was like when you know I have this thing that happens to me all the fucking time and I told Scott and he about fell out of his chair he's like people really do that to you I'm like literally want the week this happens or some as I go because that you meet people in like oh hi I'm Cargill Cargill what oh what like share oh what like friends and people are millions of times people have referred to me as the artist formerly known as car you like and so I thought that was I thought that might work and Scott just thought it was so fucking funny that is stuck in so all the Beyonce stuff all the stuff in Doctor Strange about that that's just all about my name to see I can't hurt by someone else for Infinity War very very like seeing Doctor Strange wasn't so much seeing long because one was a very personal character for me I I've always been a big fan of I'm a big fan of of the doctor strange, and I have been for those gets when I was 13 I daydreamed about getting to write a doctor strange movie and live my life like no one's ever going to let me do that and so what I can do but anyway to make a doctor strange movie. I didn't either but you know they tried a couple of times that a TV movie they are there was a attempt by Charles band to make one he lost the rights rename to call doctor mordrid it's delightfully terrible but so I get a call from Scott one night music hey man you know there's a company that wants us to make a superhero movie on Mike Scott what superhero are we right for Auto Clinic Doctor Strange sound like that's the one I'm like all right I meant I meant I'll do this and but one was always a great cuz I remember we weren't right for Ironman the type of story is that we like to tell wasn't right for that you know writers kind of pic a mission and kind of have their their thing that they do not necessarily genre but you know I like doing terrifying things we like dealing with you no big Ideas we like Falafel we're both use philosophy nerds and so you know certain like if you did pay it called up and said we want to do a Batman movie I'd be like we're not right for Batman like I love Batman but I mean the Batman story I'd want to write it's not the type of thing you want to do like Spider-Man will maybe if we played around with stereo made it really clear about time for that but after them knocking it out the park with the vultures I'm Still Holding Out for a great rendition of mixture and mix up like you are you looking forward to the Bat Mite movie is that happening if you can accept the Joker who's the basically an evil clown character and everyone is the Beloved villain if you can suspend your disbelief that this like silly jokester villain clown character is evil and scary then you should be able to spend it for just about anything anything with Juan what I found going back to that initial question the thing that I find so fascinating is that what's amazing about long as he's what grounds Doctor Strange Doctor Strange's this guy who spend all this time in this weird cartoonish world like he'll just go out and be gone for 7 minutes and really he's been in this dimension for 2 years then he comes back with his huge beard and he's been dealing good nightmarish things Inn in Buena World non-euclidean geometry and there's Wong bringing him back and he is the grounding the thing at grounding this this character and bring him back to humanity and he says connection and so I've always been fascinated by this guy feels like we have to get them right and especially since he had such a complicated history because he started out as a manservant and you know in in an era where are getting back to oh yeah he had a Chinese man servant was oh that's an acceptable part of Storytelling and now it's really not and how do you how do you correct that Injustice and get the character right at the same time and so that was like one of my big focus is so being able to humanize them with that that you know that Wong element was a big thing alright I got a question and you might have to recruit recuse yourself on this car deal cuz you may know something that I got to work use my cell phone were they managed to pull off the Avengers with a managed to pull off Infinity war and all the stuff is it is it the secret Wars 2 beyonder try to figure out what it means to be a human thing happened with the first one was the beyonder like like give me all your Heroes to do was like I don't know you guys seem cool let me try to be a human so it's so weird yeah I've never I can honestly say I've never heard the word be under spoken anywhere near Marvel Studios so much smiley face a lot of the stuff the the motivations in Infinity War like a secret Wars they're going to do the one where they can put it all together now fight they really did change the nature of Thanos in Infinity War cuz originally his motivation was I am in love with death that I want to get her attention and so I'm going to kill happy universe and that is it for an annotation to mainstream movie I thought they did a great job I think by the end of the movie there's a lot of people who are sympathetic to say nose in everything you do with an arc he's the protagonist we we we he's the only one who broke the Distance movie at the point I mean that when you get 38 characters from across you know 18 different movies of course you have to you know there's not really a lot of character development in there anyone who has a complaint about character development across over maybe just know what the fuck a crossover Missy is what the point is the point of seeing them all together and and doing what they do and so they know what is the one character that does get really great for the first time in maybe 30 years Infinity war was the first movie I saw three times in the same week the week it came out and I loved it in the first time you know you can't control when you got to go pee and you just started to your best guess and you leave and then you come back you like you have no one exactly right and then second time you definitely stick around for the parts you missed on the 3rd one time when I was taking my kids I realized Oh Captain America's on-screen good time to go pee like he does not have one good scene in that entire movie and his shield is garbage and and there's no good writing in there everything you said was wrong I will agree that I wasn't huge Man of Steel change the two to Shields Shields he's a great character he's these kids the heart of the Avengers then and at the end of the Marvel I could arrange you wrong right I am Steve Rogers that was it was so genuine and heartfelt and just very polite it was though. there's there are great moment I think the moment between he was talking to Stan how satisfying this leak I took though it was really good. I believe with amazing butt fucking Steve Rogers Ross doesn't have that many but it's like right at the beginning beginning weather in the my favorite type of all time that I've dealt with is one time Scott sent me a draft that said the same thing sent Orem that's so very different interpretation hangs out and get him food and he just says he just has very bad if I think I wouldn't say no to a I connected with that line somehow it's like I love this character also I love that not spoil anything Infinity War but there's a moment Wong's like yeah I'm out do anything about this so I'm going to go back and just watch the saint of you that's my job have you seen how many characters there are in this movie for me alright well thanks guys for coming on the podcast forever Memorial Day a big plans for Memorial Day today today we did a cookout on on the modern Rogue some melted test to see if that's possible but it turns out pretty regularly except a little but also don't use an aluminum pot because it generates a bunch of hydrogen gas that explodes I guess people should go see that you're always like like like you guys don't know anything that's the point where to try to figure it out when I say where experts were trying to become experts and so it scares me sometimes cuz you're the guys that I drink like I feel like at some point one of you is going to die with your final words being hey Cargill watched what that still have a bunch of smaller Tombstone text to yours but the what is one of the reasons I like science channels on the internet you do you think when you watch them this person knows everything that scientists are just a bunch of you who don't know something but have a good feeling about something so they can give it a shot and try really all the scientists they don't have to deal with commenters feel like you guys should have watched this other channel I'm going to be a pilot make certified as a pilot and the ABS go when they found I was going to feel more like a man anybody anything regarding Aviation online this is going to be like you're going to have a bunch of armchair Pilots telling you how you got everything wrong that I saw a bug made that whole section of it just silence and just stay away from going all the way back to talk back cuz I need to cool news God we built a PC and of course everybody had their thing that they were like we shot a gun everything you're not supposed to shoot at this way motherfucker like seriously you're trying to be like them in the music video June 12th is where were the nightmares go and comes out I see your breast is out now wherever you buy books in audio or in ebook or physical book and I will be on tour with it I'm going to be here in Austin June 11th then it's like well that's the beginning I know that was not much but you work and then I'm going to Boston and I'll be doing a reading with Joe Hill and then I will be that that weekend I'll be next week and I'll be at Denver Comic Con so if you're in Denver I'll be around all weekend with my podcast in and talking movies and then the week after that I'm going to be at cinepocalypse in Chicago where me and Scott Derrickson will be the co-presidents of the the board of snow pocalypse and will be showing a lot of very cool movie so much I've seen on the circuit this year and lots of really really great indie horror and action is going to be played there could be a lot of fun and then I get to come back home but yeah so I wouldn't be so you can catch me on the road in any of those cities and and you for joining us. Sounds like a morning radio team Ashley will be telling me how she's going to support me for a year Financial well I go pursue Some Dream nice